Response to "Morality II"

You said "Hip, Hip, Hooray!"
I'm less sure than you are that we reached consensus, but I'm happy to celebrate, hehe.

Q1: Is there such a thing as right and wrong or are all actions just natural (like hair)?
A1: You ask this as if it's possible for "right and wrong" to be independent of what they are referring to. I don't understand that.

Whether or not something is right or wrong is a moral judgement that one makes using ones beliefs as a basis for that decision. Moral judgment is dependent on what is being judged. The person making that moral judgment makes it dependent on the basis of their past experiences. You can't separate the moral judgement from the person; neither can you seperate it from the circumstances in which they find themselves making the judgement.

Q2: If all actions are merely natural then how can any judgment be rendered since all of them are simply natural?
A2: The question doesn't make any sense to me, so I'll just talk a bit, and maybe answer in the process :). Moral judgements are "should's" and "shouldn'ts". Based on our beliefs, formed by our past experiences, we make general rules of thumb about what we should do and shouldn't do. It might be purely pragmatic: "I shouldn't steal because I might get caught and go to jail." is an example of that. It can be altruistic: "I shouldn't steal because it deprives the other person of needed sustenance, and if we all stole we all would suffer". It might be a belief based on a belief system: "I shouldn't steal because the 10 commandments prohibit it" or "I shouldn't steal because humanism teaches that theft is wrong". But all those are rules of thumb based on our belief structures. I don't even see how natural or not connects. Sorry if I'm being dense.

Q3: Is there then any absolute invariant standard for right and wrong?
A3: I dont' think so, but I can't say with 100% certainty :). No religion provides such a standard(including Christianity), and neither do any secular belief systems that I'm aware of. That doesn't mean such a standard doesn't exist, but there isn't any evidence that it exists. I don't even see how it could, since you can't seperate a judgement of right or wrong from the person doing the judging and what it is they are passing judgement on. I think for that reason its pretty much a flawed question.

Q4: What is the difference between what is moral, immoral and amoral if all actions and attributes of our species are ultimately natural?
A4: Sorry, the question doesn't make any sense to me. So let me ask a somewhat related question: How do you know how long an inch is? For lots of things, a guesstimate of "O, about this much(as i spread my fingers to an inches width) is good enough. But for some things I need more accurate measurements. So I use a ruler. Here's the weird part, though. There are rulers all over the place with inches on them, and I can use most any of them to find what an inch is. I don't need (to use your words) an absolute invariant standard for how much an inch is. I just find a ruler and it's good enough.

I(and you) make moral decisions in the same way. The beliefs that we have formed as a result of the experiences we've had in our life provide us with the ruler that we use to make moral judgements. Just like you don't need to find some absolute invariant standard to define an inch, you don't need some absolute invariant standard to define right and wrong.

Is divorce wrong? Nope, at least judging by the actions of most Americans, Christian or not. Is lying wrong? Same answer. Is polygamy wrong? Yes, judging by most Americans, Christian or not, even though it's right judging by the bible. Is slavery wrong? Yes, by the same standard, even though the bible says it's right. Christians form their belief systems as a result of their life experiences just like everyone else does, and use those beliefs as a basis for judgement calls just like everyone else does, regardless of anything in the bible or claims about some deity.

So I can't say with 100% certainty that there is no such thing as an absolute utter invariant standard of right and wrong, but there is no evidence for such a thing or reason to believe such a thing exists(at least that I'm aware of).

My answers are probably unsatisfying; I hope at least they are at least mildly entertaining.

Cheers, friend.